The best thing Mariah did for her celebrity status is marrying Nick Cannon. LOL, not a bad move for Nick either. That gives people something other then her awful album to talk about. Mariah and Janet both need to stop trying to reinvent the wheel, while I am no Janet fan, I don't beleive she ever was all that great a singer but she was a very strong performer, Mariah quite the opposite, when Mariah first made her debut, she had such a soulful, mature sound. I absolutely loved her talent. Ever since Mariah broke it off with Tommy Matolla, her sound has gotten younger and younger, and her clothes shorter and tighter. Between the 2 of them all I see is 40 somethings (almost 40 somethings) trying to relive there hey-days when what I really want to see is some progression, growth and maturity in their music and their artistry.

Not long ago, I was having a conversation with a good friend about artists and remaining relevant. I can't even front and say there's no one who loves Janet more than me (because I'm sure there's someone who is), but Discipline seemed like no less a vanity project. What she and Jermaine may not realize is that the industry is no longer set up to support established artists, rather, it's about the empty, talentless, Pro-tooled flavor of the moment. I like the cd for what it is. Is it a classic no? Her best effort? Probably not. But it's what she/they thought would sell in this day and age.

I was also a faithful reader of Sohh Soulful when Soulman was the writer....so I'm kinda put off by WW4p's comments also...or maybe it was his delivery. For a minute I thought somebody was using his name in this comment section, lol.

I think it is funny how MC fans act like MC is some font of comemercial/creative prowess, when in reality she literally panders & dumbs herself down to sell records. And wasn't she nearly "washed up" only several years pripr with her lukewarm IDJ debut? How quick they forget.

That is what tarnished her in MY eyes, her lack of quality, and has made me want to NEVER purchase amother MC LP again. JJ on the other hand manages to be contemporary without dumbing herself down.

I do think QUALITY trumps sales anyday. Peace.-QH

I think she may want to go indie. Or at least get away from Def Jam.
Also -- stop chasing after the kids. Teens don't care about Janet -- for whatever reason. Stop whispering and sing (if she can). Stop writing odes to her genitalia.

"Rock With U" is a hit. It's great... written by NeYo, produced by Jermaine. Now all we needed was for the ICON to do her part and sell it like hot sex on a platter. That's where things went wrong.

SO PAGE BLACK.... stop quoting me from when I worked at SOHH.com and go buy a few extra copies of Discipline... your fallen idol can use the sales.

THIS IS THE MUSIC BUSINESS SO CUT THE BULLSHIT ABOUT SALES vs. QUALITY!

She is a pop icon. That is an honor bestowed upon her not for the unheard quality tracks on her CD, but the total package which has clearly gone stale in the eyes of her once loyal fans. Count me as one of them.

STROBE LIGHTS MAKE EVERYTHING SEXIER... but smoke and mirrors don't sell CDs.

*nOva... sorry for over-stirring this pot. its all moot at this point. tour and all.

The following is a quote taken from a blog post on the popular hip hop site Sohh.com written by the very same Janet hater/Mariah stan who is all up in this comment section like a 'Wendy interview".
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Let me go on record and say that after one listen. "ROCK WITH U" is a muthafuggin hit. Janet went to the clubs and I love that. That song reminds me of the popular house song with the chorus that goes "feels like, the music sounds better with you.." it's by like the FUNKY GREEN DOGS or MASTERS AT WORK or something.... but whatever the case....

JANET THIS IS YOUR LANE BABY GIRL! OWN IT!

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This is why I tend to pay very little attention to folks who talk negatively of Janet AFTER the album drops to low sales. Had her record sales been high..I can guarantee that this same individual would be singing her comeback praises just like the rest of the 'sheeps'.

'Washed Up Idol'? Or your 'Baby Girl'? Which one is it?

Great thread! Honestly, I love sister Janet. However, she seriously needs to grow up and accept the fact she's no longer little Janet anymore and make music that fits her demos of 35 plus. I think someone else here mention that she needs to drop JD as her guide/coach/producer. To add my two cents worth, please turn off the misguided light of JD and call someone in the reshape her sound, give her better material to work with and please, please sing loud enough so folks can hear you!!

Peace, Ralph Johns

Great post! I agree. She's reached that point in her career where she's going to have to be comfortable to pleasing only a select few...and that's okay. I think every artist gets to that point...or will if they haven't already. Mimi was just able to re re re invent her foolishness, hence "The Emancipation...." And people love foolishness! Funny enough I was just talking about Mimi with one of my co workers. She said, even though Mimi's music isn't good, Mimi is an "interesting character who thinks in pink, glitter, butterflies, and homegirlyness all at the same time." People love the foolishness.

1st off Janet needs to stop letting JD guide her career. She sold her soul to LA Reid to make Discipline giving up basically all creative control and just showing to the studio and singing. Now Janet wants to sound like Rhianna, Britney & Ciara instead of the other way around and guess what these kids don't care. Also we get that you are sexy Janet and you like to play with your who ha non stop but damn do we need it on every album..NO

Wamp, Wamp... show us your boobs or something. Maybe then we'll pay attention to this QUALITY music Janet is putting. Quality my ass.

You Janet stans get so O.O.C for her, and wanna quote her sales record when you wanna say how much of an icon she is, but wanna banter on the quality of her work when the public could give a shit.

Whatever... sell them quality albums and all will be well. And the fans should cut the whinning and deal with their washed up idol.

Such a pretty mess!

nOva: Not for nothing, but geez, could this comment get any more unnecessarily vitriolic? The discourse was alright for a minute, but this right here is just not the kind of ship I like to run. It's not that deep.

I feel nOva hit the nail on the head. I personally think that as stated it is quality over quantity. So, when the sales records are broken and the new thing is here, what is left behind is the work itself.

We all know the while Carey's album moved more units, Jackson put out a better LP than she did. It is good she's hitting the road and keeping her head up through the mess.-QH

I love Janet, and I have to agree that public perception matters a lot in terms of record sales. "I Want You," "So Excited," and "Feedback" were some of the hottest songs on the radio at the time of their release, and it just didn't happen for her. With Damita Jo (platinum!) and 20 YO I would argue that you could chalk their lack of commercial success up to poor promotion, but Discipline was EVERYWHERE the week of its release, and even if promotion hadn't fallen off the following week, those first week numbers didn't foreshadow staying power. The general consensus is that Janet is a wrap, and while I don't think that that notion is justified in terms of her quality of work, it will be a reality as long as people continue to let it; at least for the moment.

However, to suggest that Janet is falling off because she's no longer creatively relevant isn't really fair. She's proven in the 80's, 90's, and toward the beginning of this decade that she can hold her own in this industry; and many of the trends people accuse her of following today are the same trends she helped establish back then. She's paid her dues, and she did so with a lot more class than most other artists, then or now.

So yeah,Janet's mediocre sales of late don't really reflect her credibility as an artist. Let's not forget she was confronting depression, racism, sexism, domestic abuse, and promoting social awareness while that OTHER diva was busy using her 5 octaves to chase butterflies and rainbows... If she wants to have fun @ 42, let her.

That being said, Mary is clearly killin the game right now.

Preach on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And see you at the show...

Chile cheese, sell some albums and stop running to R&B when the chips are down. Janet chased pop and now she's TIRED from all that running.

Solid R&B albums are what people look to her for.

BYE BYE BYE BYE! This is for my people who just lost somebody....

As a true Janet stan, I can say you have the epitome of my thought's written on this post. I love Discipline, track by track, it may not be The Velvet Rope, but it's solid R&B. Not a producer's showcase of vocaders, or a amalgram of guest rappers, but quality music. As much as I want Janet to have major success, I would hate for her to sell out to achieve it, or achieve it with no quality to back it up.At the end of the day, the way an album moves you, defines you, and becomes the soundtrack to your life determines it's worth, not numbers.

Don't bring Mariah Into Janet's pretty mess. She lost touch, ain't fans fault. Her brand of 80's pop superstardom is outdated. NEXT!

I agree sales don't mean anything. But 20-YO left a bad taste in my mouth, that album was trash. Janet needs to stop with the nympho routine. As much as I lusted after Janet in her Velvet Rope days, It just sounds weird hearing her sing "Ill open up my spot for you anytime you want me too".. And "You got a nice package all-right think I'm gonna have to ride it tonight" -- I prefer the socially conscience Janet on Rhythm Nation. Even the more toned down leave some to the imagination Janet on "Anytime, Any Place"
Now we have to listen to her express Ne-Yo's weird desires on travesties like the title track discipline. Or listen to her croon over half finished left over Mariah skeleton tracks like "Never Letchu go" Discipline was a solid album and vocally (especially the back round vocals) she never sounded better. I rotated more than a few tracks on this album, but it has no come back.
I can still grab Control and listen to "Lets wait a while", "Nasty" "the Pleasure principle" "When I think of you" and even with the outdated production those songs still sound GREAT.
How about a near perfect album like Rhythm Nation These songs (records) have staying power, replay value and anytime I catch an old school show on the radio and one of these songs come on I crank the volume... Discipline came out in February and if "Luv" or the "Discipline" come on I'm changing the radio station, because they sound like everything else and I was cool after the first 3 weeks.. Maybe it’s Jimmy and Terry’s fault, they’ve been using ghost producers for the last 5-10 years off an on, they were just as responsible for Janet’s earlier work as her. They need to get their Mojo back and hook up with Janet again

Thank you! I agree completely. Especially about the sales, I mean when did record sales start to determine how great an artist is. To quote my grandma, "we in end days".

Dare I say it. I LOVE the Discipline album. Are there tracks I can pass by? Sure. But when I picked up the album I was only checking for "Feedback" and "Discipline. In the middle I found "Luv", "Roch With You" and "2 Nite" all of which stay on my iPod repeat. I had previously written Janet off, but now I'm willing to keep an open mind -- and borrow someone's Damita Jo album!

Great argument. You bring some nice points. I do think Janet needs to stop doing what her older brother, Michael, constantly does -- and that is chase after "Yester-year Fame"

Janet's last album had her sounding like her imitators. "Feedback" is basically "Britney Spears trying to sound like Janet" sloppy seconds.

Perhaps, Janet needs to concentrate on delivering quality albums -- critical vs. commerical success.